his_eminence ([info]his_eminence) wrote,
@ 2007-10-16 09:05:00
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Current location:work
Current mood: curious
Current music:Pink - U & ur hand
Entry tags:fighters

I need some feedback from fighters...
As per the tag above, I need some help from ya'll...

Here's the Question:
What your qualification/s of a "Great" fighter (Heavy, Rapier, Martial arts, or whatever)?

What I'm looking for is the qualities that make a person a great fighter... after I've been able to pool over some responces I'll post on why I'm asking the question.


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[info]tracytris
2007-10-16 01:49 pm UTC (link)
Hi,
My opinion of a great fighter is someone who has not only strength (in HL) but also speed, endurance & agility.

their moves are fluid yet they can still tell you what happened & what they did at the end of a fight (a skill i am keen to master).

that's my short form for definition of a great fighter.

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[info]his_eminence
2007-10-16 07:02 pm UTC (link)
What about the long definition are you willing to expand?

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[info]tracytris
2007-10-17 12:20 pm UTC (link)
i am not sure i can.
have to give it some thought. I will do that.

I am unfortunately a gut person who tries to be analytical but mostly I work on instinct & feeling.

and as wingblaze says... on boobs ;)

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[info]wingblaze
2007-10-17 11:52 am UTC (link)
She left off her most important one.

BOOBS.

A great fighter has a great rack!

I've heard her say it. Honest.

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[info]tracytris
2007-10-17 12:20 pm UTC (link)
:P

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[info]katnboots
2007-10-16 01:57 pm UTC (link)
Someone who understands combat mechanics well enough to personally apply the same principles to different forms, martial activities and rulesets.

or

Someone who, within the same martial activity, has mastered multiple styles and can choose and use one effective against the style of her opponent.

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[info]katnboots
2007-10-16 02:54 pm UTC (link)
Looking back, I prolly didn't answer your question. I was thinking of the fighty-fighty part by itself. I didn't list the personality traits that cause a person to learn faster or stick with it, or qualities like "he fights and he's also a good guy who does service to fighters".

Oh well. :)

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[info]his_eminence
2007-10-16 07:03 pm UTC (link)
No your answer was fine... I think I follow your meaning.

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[info]wingblaze
2007-10-16 02:31 pm UTC (link)
A great fighter... hm...

A great fighter enjoys what they do for it's own sake, not because they won.

A great fighter understands what they're doing and *why*, rather than just having learned reactions over time.

A great fighter is someone who you enjoy fighting. You appreciate their art.

A great fighter will probably be effective, but effectiveness is neither a requirement nor an indicator.

A great fighter continues to learn.

A great fighter will share with you. He'll tell you what he just did to you and how to prevent it.

That's a start

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[info]his_eminence
2007-10-16 07:04 pm UTC (link)
That's a start

So you'll post more then?

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[info]wingblaze
2007-10-17 11:51 am UTC (link)
Hm. I've pondered it a bit, and that's a pretty solid list for me. It captures the elements of the fighters I respect the most and of course is also a set of personal standards to work towards.

One less obvious one:

A great fighter ages gracefully and well, since they were not fighting only on the speed of their youth, or their reach or what not.

Interestingly, the discipline is irrelevant for my list as with many of the others.

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[info]alanna163
2007-10-17 12:46 pm UTC (link)
I agree with you, the attitude and the way that person presents his/herself is far more important to what i consider a great fighter than the actual mechanics of the fight.

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[info]owynn
2007-10-16 03:33 pm UTC (link)
A great fighter has a lot more than just what you see on the surface. Like and onion, you keep pealing away the layers and you still find more. Its not that they understand just the how and when, but also the why. Some people are naturals and they may never understand the why. But what really makes one truely great is not only being a great fighter on their own, but also being able to make others around them better.

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[info]his_eminence
2007-10-16 07:05 pm UTC (link)
Ok, got it thanks.

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Great fighters
[info]siobhan1214
2007-10-16 03:49 pm UTC (link)
I was reading the responses you had here, and I realized that my definition of a great fighter is a little different. I'm not a fighter at all.

I think a great fighter, in addition to his prowess, is humble. He/She truly enjoys fighting and wants to help others be the best they can be too. They are known for their valor and their deeds.

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Re: Great fighters
[info]his_eminence
2007-10-16 07:06 pm UTC (link)
Just because you may not fight doesn't mean that your opinion isn't valuable, thank you for posting, and if you think of anything else, expand futher please.

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[info]ferriludant
2007-10-16 04:32 pm UTC (link)
The essential thing a great fighter must have is an unshakeable determination to win. (for clarification: I do not mean "need" to win, which people equate with a willingness to bend the rules, but a determination to actually win, and not quit).

Another must-have: superior awareness of the combat - what the opponent is doing, the ground, what the opponent has done and might do next, his/her own internal state, and of course any victory conditions. This takes intense focus.

Then there's the technique stuff and the physicality, but the first two are (imo) the most important.

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[info]his_eminence
2007-10-16 07:07 pm UTC (link)
Will and Awarness, is that all?

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[info]ferriludant
2007-10-16 08:25 pm UTC (link)
No, not all. But to me, those are the most important qualifications, the things which most vividly separate the great from the competent (and even the competent from the less so).

I also of course value the things other have said... but those are my two first, the things I most wish I could improve in myself, and the things I most wish I could transmit or inculcate in others.

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[info]alanna163
2007-10-16 09:48 pm UTC (link)
I feel that a great fighter is one who not only fights well, but honorably. That person is one who takes clean shots from any fighter of any level, and offers suggestions as just that; help, not a show of condescension "i'm better and this is how to do it right."

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repeating a bunch, and trying to seperate someone I would enjoy fighting with from great fighter
[info]gwenlianna
2007-10-17 04:14 am UTC (link)
So, my theory on what makes a great fighter...

Knowledge of the form and mechanics, and the ability to apply this knowledge in real life situations. Being able to tell at any given point, both where their own blades should be, and where their opponents are, as well as where their body needs to be in relation.

The ability to analyze their own movements in order to identify points that may need improvement. A willingness to explain to others what it is that they did.

The ability to analyze the movements of others and to explain to them what corrections they need to make.

Being capable of adjusting the level at which they fight, to match that of their opponents. (Actually doing this crosses into being a great teacher, but a great fighter should be capable of this even if they choose not to do it.)

A realization that there is always something more to learn.

There might be more, but this is what I have for the moment.

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"Makes a great fighter" or "How do we recognize a great fighter"?
[info]ferriludant
2007-10-17 02:34 pm UTC (link)
It appears to me that people are talking about two separate but related questions, based I suppose on different interpretations of the meaning of the question.

I answered as though you wanted to know what contributes to people becoming a great fighter - what qualities must a person have in order to be great.

But it's clear that a lot of people are talking about attributes a great fighter has, and how we recognize one.

There's also some apparent difference of opinion about the meaning of "great".

I don't really have anything to contribute here, but I thought the divergence in response was interesting.

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Re: "Makes a great fighter" or "How do we recognize a great fighter"?
[info]alanna163
2007-10-17 09:19 pm UTC (link)
Again though, it shows the personality of the person responding, because i don't think that there is a difference between the two questions. In my opinion there are people who can win all the tournaments they ever enter and will still not be a "great fighter". That person might be a "strong fighter" but without meeting other qualifications of being a great person, will never become a great fighter.

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Re: "Makes a great fighter" or "How do we recognize a great fighter"?
[info]ferriludant
2007-10-17 10:06 pm UTC (link)
Cousin, while we in this enlightened age may place additional criteria as we choose, those who came before us in the art recognized great fighters by their victories, and not much else. And modern sports still do the same thing: it's possible for a fighter to be as stylish and gracious and all-around wonderful as you might want to imagine, but if s/he doesn't win, few will call you a "great fighter".

So recognizing one is relatively easy. Your example of a fighter who wins every tournament s/he enters is pretty obviously a great fighter. (unless of course s/he only enters tourneys in their backyard fighting the neighborhood kids - then there's nothing shown).

But being a great fighter is having prowess. And prowess is shown by victory in the crucible.

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Re: "Makes a great fighter" or "How do we recognize a great fighter"?
[info]alanna163
2007-10-17 10:20 pm UTC (link)
Strong or talented would be worthy adjectives for someone who wins every tournament, but "great" is a special adjective and doesn't necessarily apply.

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Re: "Makes a great fighter" or "How do we recognize a great fighter"?
[info]ferriludant
2007-10-17 10:31 pm UTC (link)
Your definition differs from that used in most other domains (and I can't think of a single agonistic domain which uses the word in your sense). That's okay of course, but be you should be aware.

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Re: "Makes a great fighter" or "How do we recognize a great fighter"?
[info]alanna163
2007-10-17 10:41 pm UTC (link)
According several of the definitions in dictionary.com

Great
- unusual or considerable in degree, power, intensity.
- wonderful; first-rate; very good
- being such in an extreme or notable degree
- notable; remarkable; exceptionally outstanding
* of noble or lofty character

I agree that someone has to be both strong and talented in order to be considered as a great fighter. However, it doesn't end there. That would be only encompassing some of these definitions. Without the other personal characteristics, the "noble or lofty character" along with the others, the person is not a great fighter.

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Re: "Makes a great fighter" or "How do we recognize a great fighter"?
[info]ferriludant
2007-10-18 12:36 am UTC (link)
Truly, I do not consider a general dictionary, intended to codify the meanings in use in a wide, general population to be a good source for the meaning of a word in a specific domain: that of agonistic encounters. My understanding of its widely used meaning there would relate very closely to something like "superior prowess", with no concern for nobility of character. Else there would be no need to say anything like "a great _____ and a marvelous human being".

But we're going back and forth, and repetition isn't going to change the facts.

JP, thanks for a provocative question. I do look forward to your analysis and summary, not to mention hearing about the context for which you wanted this.

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Re: "Makes a great fighter" or "How do we recognize a great fighter"?
[info]alanna163
2007-10-18 09:03 am UTC (link)
Regardless how many definitions you choose to strip from a particular word, there are two words in play here. One is "great" as an adjective, not an adverb, and the other is "fighter" the noun, the person, not the verb "fight".

Just as when a small boy breaks one of his sister's toys, what he DID was wrong or bad, that does not necessarily transfer to make him a "bad boy". He as a person is not bad, just the actions. Likewise when a student makes a particularly stupid decision, that does not make the student stupid.

Many people confuse the two. The awareness of the fight and some of the other things you describe make someone great at fighting (the verb). "Superior Prowess" is again using great as an adverb not an adjective. That does not necessarily carry over to attributes of the fighter (as a noun). It is perhaps a subtle linguistic difference to you, but a very clear one when observing people and how they interact with others.

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[info]argent_tyger
2008-04-08 06:08 am UTC (link)
What makes a great fighter is true universally across all martial activities IMO.

The ability to know ones own strengths and weaknesses and to be able to spot them in others quickly.

The ability to adapt and improvise.

The Ability to find victory when facing a more skilled opponent.
(this goes for stronger, faster, taller opponents as well really)

A great fighter can "live in the now" of a fight and not over analize their actions or the actions of their opponent while at the same time be able to store the fight to look at later and learn from it.

one of the most important things in my opinion,
a great fighter KNOWS they can win. They know in their heart that no matter who it is in front of them they are capable of winning.

A great fighter is never satisfied. They strive to improve even in victory they will often find some fault with how they fought and try and learn from it.

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